Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #2
Agenda
- Updates from Greg on Economics 2.0
- Updates on outsourcing security budget
- Open up to community for ideas or concerns
Meeting Details
- Date: Wednesday, March 1, 2023
- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time)
- Recording
- Transcript
Participants
- Adam Bozanich
- Andrew Gnatyuk
- Andrew Walwema
- Anil Murty
- Artur Troian
- Boz Menzalji
- cheechyo
- Cheng Wang
- Coney Daddy
- Damir Simpovic
- Denis Lelic
- George Pro
- Greg Osuri
- Jigar Patel
- Joao Luna
- Max
- Robert
- Rodrigo Rochin
- Scott Hewitson
- Tyler Wright
- Zach Horn
Notes
Greg opened up the discussion by highlighting the current state of Akash (AKT) emissions and how there are 180 million left to be distributed. As of now, most of these emissions are being sent to securing the network via validators but it is a resource we should tap into to incentivize behavior. The draft version of Economics 2.0 creates an incentive distribution pool (IDP) to incentivize network development, providers to add resources to the network, community activity, in addition to securing the blockchain.
After the intro, the group dove right into questions pertaining to Economics 2.0 and other general questions regarding SIG Economics.
Noteable Questions (Paraphrased)
Question (Robert): Will you increase the minimum required amount of AKT for validators to be in the active set?
- Answer (Greg): No, the active set is just the top 100 validators with the highest number of AKT bonded/staked
Question (Scott): By outsourcing security budget to Bitcoin via Babylon and diverting a portion of token emissions away from validators/stakers that will inevitably decrease APR to stakers and provide less incentive to bond. Are you saying we are okay with a lower number of tokens bonded on the network?
- Answer (Greg): Yes, lower bonded rate means lower security. Akash is unique in that it is not securing pools of value like DeFi applications, it’s securing temporary deployments. One attack vector is the double spend problem on deployments : ie - I pay $10 for a deployment and get $10 back. For a $10 deployment the attacker must be willing to spend less than that for it to make sense.
Question (Cheng): Would a long-running, high dollar deployment/lease on the network be affected by an attack early in the lease while waiting for the latency of Bitcoin’s security to secure it?
- Answer (Greg): No because deployments are streamed payments. When you deploy something, you don’t pay upfront, you pay in real-time as the lease goes. I’m not aware of an attack profile that makes sense to attack the Akash Network
Question (Jaoa): Where will lease data be stored with these proposed changes, if not on Akash?
- Answer (Greg): Every deployment goes to tendermint first and then after some time gets committed to bitcoin via checkpointing as a service like Babylon
Question (Jaoa): How does this change affect validators, I’m assuming rewards will be smaller?
- Answer (Greg): Yea rewards will be smaller. However, with mesh security I think validators will choose to validate multiple networks because the cost of validating multiple chains is smaller when you can use a single binary. Lower APR on each chain but together rewards will be higher.
Question (Andrew): For the recent announcement for $1M in AKT for KAVA, is that from the foundation?
- Answer (Cheng & Greg): First, the tokens for this are coming from Overclock Labs, not any community funds or in any way from Akash. It is a pledge “up-to” amount to help drive adoption of the network, which should benefit everyone on the network not just Overclock Labs. We are trying to incentivize long term deployments.
Question (Andrew): How does adding Bitcoin security affect the community pool?
- Answer (Greg): By using Bitcoin for security we are actually freeing up more tokens for other purposes like development, provider incentives, and community. With the community pool currently at 10%, we are using a small portion of tokens to incentivize behavior other than securing the network.
Question (Cheng): Have you thought about the percentage split of tokens to the respective incentive mechanisms
- Answer (Greg): Mentally we’re looking at 25% between the four areas which will be covered in more detail, but I don’t want to decide the percentages of tokens and it should be left up to the community.
Action Items
Scott will create wg-economics-2.0 in github and schedule the first wg meeting via discord. If you would like to contribute to Economics 2.0 please visit sig-economics in the Discord Server to be added
Transcript
This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.
Scott Hewitson: Okay. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, everyone. This is the second meeting for SIG economics.
Scott Hewitson: Greg actually, I’ll just let you. I’ll just let you start.
Greg Osuri: yeah, so the biggest progress we made really is to understand a security budget because that is the underlying pen of everything we do in terms of Rewards distribution. The real challenges understanding what’s the amount of tokens? That. That needs to be distributed to security auction for Kakash. Being a proof of state token. and, like, and the and the way, you know, that is to understand, you know really what is that we’re securing. How is it? We’re securing. And what are different attackers, right? So
Greg Osuri: so that means we have currently about 180 million tokens that are on issued out of creating nine million that was proposed. Originally and, and out of this 180 million how much of It need to be allocated for securing the blockchain and for how long can these distribute distributed right now? We will get you know enough Balance to to incentivize behavior. So be it providing centers will be developer funding or be it. Any other behavior that we like to see in the network, right? So And more importantly, what happens when we run out of security budget? What are different mechanisms that we can? Deploy to still secure their cost network.
Greg Osuri: So I work primarily with David, say it outside. He is the professor at Sanford. And we actually had an incredible.
Greg Osuri: Breakthrough in understanding. and a conclusion that Akash network is prime for Um, for borrowing security from Bitcoin. And you see some proposals go around especially on osmosis and whatnot. But Akash network has very unique property that change like osmosis or any ad5 applications. don’t, which is a continuous service in the sense that our lease is being you know, serve continuously instead of one time payments give us a much better opportunity to to secure the leases in different PARABS so you can think of it in a way that You know.
Greg Osuri: It leaves that takes long. Time to execute like a website. What not can be secure on a chain that has high latency? Let me, it’s longer block times versus a lease that takes shorter execution time can be secured on change that, you know, have shorter. Right, like tenderment based chains. Why does important is while you exploring bitcoin security? The big trade-off we need to make is latency, right? So Bitcoin is the most secure secure change. The reason why we don’t use bitcoin security because it’s very, very slow. I
Greg Osuri: confirmed transaction takes 30 minutes an hour, right? So one could make an argument saying that if Elise takes an hour, can that be secure you in bitcoin change? And the answer is yes, right? So that’s really where the key is and that’s really super exciting because, you know, these long-term sort of like a payment methods are only available for For Akash network, right? So so that’s really big that breaks Will came after very long time, right? It’s not something that be sort of like, realize it works. But, you know, we had to go through a whole lot of like, As simple as it sounds but the the
Greg Osuri: Methods of work that was employed to get to the breakthroughs was pretty long. That said, we are. Doing, you know, we essentially, you know, looking for people that could help us accelerate some of the other math are in terms of towards distribution. And we can actually we’re pretty comfortable now to Consider the security budget as a variable and that can be incorporated into the larger distribution sort of like vectors, right? So, and nothing we’re working on is to understand the decay function as to what the having time we want to be and what the length of the device distribution. We want to be. So that’s the progress we made in the last few weeks with
00:05:00
Scott Hewitson: Greg just Yeah,…
Greg Osuri: Any questions, anybody?
Scott Hewitson: just a quick question on. It’s I know you’ve been working with David is. Do you want to do? We want to set up a time like for a working group on this to to get more folks involved? So we can maybe tap into resources or Yeah, this let this past month,…
Greg Osuri: Yeah, absolutely.
Scott Hewitson: there’s been a lot going on. But moving forward, I can take it as an action item to set up the Working Group for Economics, 2.0 in and Github. And then to schedule that first meeting, I’d like to do it in the first, you know, in the next two weeks or so.
Greg Osuri: Yeah, that was fantastic. Yes. Being primarily David, and I working all this. This proposal.
Scott Hewitson: Okay, okay.
Scott Hewitson: I will, I will do that, then I’ll add that to action items in the notes.
Greg Osuri: So we have a question is bitcoin security just to secure deployments A constant network. Security will still be in the hands of ideas, right? No. So the idea of using bitcoin security is so that we don’t Have security enough hand so values, right? So we’re like moving away.
Greg Osuri: And not entirely but moving away to a certain degree from from validators to bitcoin, right? Some bitcoin has minors. The idea is if you create release you know, that the confirmation of the lease could be immediate, And that could be in the Tenderment spear, but as the leaves, you know, is executed. You know, the value of the leaves thereby enhanced, right? Because you know, the first six minutes. Sorry, for the first six seconds is very, very low. The monitor amount. That’s transaction. But as you go for an hour it’s higher, right? So So as Elise, you know, as a time passes, it slowly moves to Bitcoin because we can’t bitcoin takes forever. So that the gas fees and the, you know,
Greg Osuri: The user pays goes to bitcoin minus essentially. Right. So that’s really how it is. So yeah, we’ll be using, you still will be using tenderment but we’ll have a much smaller security budget that goes out, retirement validators. And, and the And a bit confusable collectible user from Gatsby’s time. So it’s basically, In simplest terms. It’s really a bitcoin Lt. You know, I hate to say it but it’s really a bitcoin L too. That’s like dedicated just for a passionate work. So it’s like a Bitcoin L2 app chain. I just made up a new acronym or, you know, Buzzword
Joao Luna: If?
Robert: Awesome. Greg. Thank you so much. I guess my next question was gonna be if you had planned to increase the floor price to enter to the active set, but I guess you pretty much over my concern. Say so thank you so much.
Greg Osuri: I’m sorry. What’s Floor. Price to increase. Sorry question.
Robert: Luna. Are you search for price to refer to the validator 100 in a cash network? Right now, that student liking 27,000. So, if And I want I wanted to ask if you were planning, like increase that number. But if you’re gonna be
Greg Osuri: We can increase the number that that that’s determined by the last validator. That’s not a government. Control parameter or…
Robert: No. Yeah. Yeah. I know,…
Greg Osuri: Vertical Control panel.
Robert: know. But some foundations do. They just like delegate to the last body there? Said to increase it. But yeah, that’s a topic for the conversation, I guess.
Greg Osuri: Yeah, this is not going to cover. Foundation litigations. But that’s a completely different topic again, you don’t, we don’t really delegate to the last validator or anything.
00:10:00
Greg Osuri: But it’s got.
Scott Hewitson: Yeah, so actually I had you know, as I’m thinking about this trying to kind of wrap my head around it. from like the highest level, you know, say Using security budget aka inflationary tokens and I think it’s awesome that we can use Bitcoin to secure some of the transactions. So I see that some of the some of that inflation being diverted away to stakers and validators. Which means obviously lower Apr.
Greg Osuri: Yeah.
Scott Hewitson: Do you
Scott Hewitson: Does it, you know? Like I don’t know what the number bonded is, or percent bonded. Right now, it’s around like 70%. Is that like kind of saying we’re okay with a lower percentage of tokens bonded on the network, and it’s still being secure.
Greg Osuri: Yeah, I think the optimal percentage sixty percent. I think that’s what we optimize for. So we are little over than what’s optimal in terms of bonding rate right now. but,
Greg Osuri: I mean, it. The lower bonding rate means the lower security,…
Scott Hewitson: Yeah.
Greg Osuri: right? So, But then again, like if you say like most transactions of security and bitcoin and only few transactions have smaller values secured in AKASH. It’s fine and I think, I don’t mean, I think we can go much lower in terms of bonding grade. and because, you know, at any given time, The way you measure the security is like at any given time, what is the attack? What’s the cost of attack? Right? And the cost of attack should be less than the value that can be captured from the attack essentially, for the attack, makes sense, right? So, If an attacker like, Like, if you talk about a double spend problem, that’s really what it is, right? um, if you are talking about double spend problem, the attacker is like, okay, I’m going to pay $10 for this deployment and…
Scott Hewitson: Here.
Greg Osuri: I’m going to attack the change to give me back the ten dollars. That’s a double spending sort of like, you know, attack, right? So the value of the the attacker is really gaining his ten dollars. So the you know, the cost of tax should be nine dollars. Right. So
Greg Osuri: So that’s why I mean occasionally if I change so it doesn’t have like tpls to like people can steal money from right securing deployments. So that’s that’s how you think about it. And like, so if a deployment goes for longer than one hour, and then it’s on Bitcoin. So now, good luck at hanging Bitcoin, right? Like
Greg Osuri: So I think we can get away with it significantly lower security,…
Scott Hewitson: Yeah.
Greg Osuri: but budget because we are not securing. Money, you know.
Joao Luna: If?
Scott Hewitson: Yeah, pools of value.
Scott Hewitson: And I guess
Greg Osuri: We’re securing in a way a temporary deployment.
Greg Osuri: If you go, like if you remember like 10 domain from Akash completely, and if you go like all bitcoin, Will be slower as hell, but it still will work. you know, I mean,
Scott Hewitson: Yeah.
Greg Osuri: And then you’d be like How do I speed it up Then We’re like, Okay, I’m going to like cash. Like, you know, cats certain transactions and that cash will be local and the local will be again secure by a bunch of validators. And that’ll be written to the disc or, you know, committed to the blockchain on Bitcoin eventually, but I’m going to use the cash to speed up my transactions. So and now you only need to your security budget is only, you know, it’s only for the cash. So that’s how you think about it.
Scott Hewitson: Okay, makes sense.
Greg Osuri: Any other questions concerns?
Greg Osuri: Georgia.
Cheng Wang: Okay, that’s a great walk through there. And in terms of the security and the cash explanation, I think makes a lot of sense in terms of and politician background is currently on airport, the, in terms of the attack. Initially if, if there is, for example, Long-running lease, the lease itself is fairly lucrative, would you know, would that increase kind of the attack risk profile of that particular lease? I’m not sure how you know any attacker would kind of target that but say If you’re running you know a million dollars but they kind of runs across and entire year where you know, the initial transactions would leverage experiment security but you know over the course of an hour plus how we’re as far as you know, the initial respect for being greater and dimensions, significantly longer and
Greg Osuri: I mean, so let’s take more concrete examples and Scott’s primary right? Like so like if you’re saying million dollars per block time, You know, so if so like Realistically, let’s say you’re doing like 10 bucks, a very expensive workload. Okay, let’s like a 100 workout. Okay, so I have like a 100 chips. It costs about dollar fifty an hour. Okay, I’ve eat one e100 chips. Let’s say it costs about ten dollars an hour, right? For eight eggs, a 100 plus or which is like a pretty heavy box. so say, I mean employer, I’m paying ten bucks an hour, you break it down by You know. divide that 10 bucks or, you know it’s by 60 does work like 16 cents per second. So again that
00:15:00
Greg Osuri: You know. Circle per minute. So that I
Greg Osuri: Right? So if bitcoin takes like 30 minutes transaction, so that you like, Five bucks, right? So really like, we need to secure the five dollars for liking very, very heavy box.
Greg Osuri: That makes sense. Right, so we’re not. We’re only securing that time would take for the bitcoin to commit this deployment. We’re not even though it’s a million dollar trans like a deployment that goes over a year, we’re only secure in the first one hour.
Greg Osuri: Because it takes one hour for Bitcoin to take over from there. The next sense.
Cheng Wang: Yeah, I think so. I’ll show around my mind around some of my initiative. Thank you.
Greg Osuri: so the attacker is trying to like attack you for like, $5 in this case, which is You know, the cost attack is. The value of the attack is like super low. Right. I mean, we talk about really high-end box. So you multiply that by
Greg Osuri: and if you’re,…
Cheng Wang: But I go.
Greg Osuri: if you’re having like and again, okay, so if you hang like, let’s say 100 of 8 x, a 100 Then the network is so big. You know, the the you know, take fees will cover security budget for it. To the hotel and take fee. And that goes in security, budget and security distribution. So, You know, the inflationary budget that we need is, is significantly lower. To run a cash network.
Cheng Wang: I guess um, effectively like from practical and mechanical perspective. If if that initial few minute period does get compromised, how does that impact the workload? If it’s a long running workload,
Greg Osuri: May it only like. So let’s be very confident about what kind of attacks, right? It’s a double spend that basically, so I gave money. And I want the money back. I’m attacking you for forgiving my money back, right? So in this case for like a 8x a100, the cost will be somewhere like five dollars. I’m trying to get back five dollars, really? Attack. I don’t know any Attack profile, that that makes sense to attack Akash network.
Greg Osuri: You know.
Greg Osuri: I mean, you’re not doing any defy, transaction, not like, securing putting it putting in a pool that has millions of dollars that you want to tag the pool because we don’t have stuff like that. You literally like just pay in real time for deployments. And you’re not paying all the money at once. It goes like every, every now of that, right? Periodically
Greg Osuri: Luna.
Joao Luna: Hi, I’m just trying to create here. A metal model to try to understand all this, and I’m interested on How so currently, we are storing our list data on. On their cash network. Right through the tender means notes. with these changes would the clients still competence transactions to the tender meet nodes and who they act like an intermediary to Then like store those those leases on on Bitcoin. Is that how it would work or did I understood?
Greg Osuri: Yeah. The silicon they still committee element. It’s still has validators. Like like every transaction goes to tenement first and then So every deployment, right? Ghost element first. And then after like one hour it gets connected to Bitcoin. so now,
00:20:00
Joao Luna: Okay, that commitment is from the, the Akash network or
Greg Osuri: Yeah. So we’ll use Bet background chain or something like that that will give us like checkpoint of service. That’ll. That’ll be that we can leverage Bitcoin essentially.
Joao Luna: Okay. Okay.
Greg Osuri: So it’s sort of like a Layer 2 for bitcoin. Yeah.
Greg Osuri: Cool. Soon as Robert, how much is Bitcoin security going to cost?
Greg Osuri: I don’t know how to answer the question you’re like, Akash like so, who, who pays for the security is a better question. Where is it coming from? Right? That comes from,
Greg Osuri: That comes from. The user gastric essentially.
Greg Osuri: That goes to bitcoin matters.
Greg Osuri: Yeah.
Greg Osuri: You go ahead, Luna.
Joao Luna: Oh yeah, just another question. I’m still rubbing my head around this. How would such a change affects the validators? I’m assuming the rewards will be smaller, right?
Greg Osuri: Yeah. Absolutely. A smaller security management. Small rewards. Sure.
Joao Luna: Okay. Okay. Yes.
Greg Osuri: I mean, with my security, I think that that becomes a little more sort of, like, I mean, you can use this in combination with mesh as well, right? So, I think.
Greg Osuri: Like, with all the things that are happening, I think validators will end up choosing to validate like a Babylon chain, like an osmosis chain and a costume, right? Using a single binary at this point. and so the cost of validating with your significantly lower with mesh, and,
Greg Osuri: We’re in rewards as well. I think will be much lower on individuals chains, but will be much higher when you come compare them and value them together. So, I think, like, For cost standpoint. I think it won’t be. I mean, I think this is gonna be net sort of like profit. But again, this has to go through a lot of simulations and large discussions.
Greg Osuri: The questions.
Scott Hewitson: Yeah, I had one just in the, in the put, in the chat, I was looking at the Osmo proposal yesterday and, you know, they broke it into three three parts and the, you know, I was reading discussions and everything and there’s You know, the later parts include like the token SWAT obviously, Babylon chain. You know, the token and OS to do a swap. Have you talked with David at all about what that’ll look like? Or how that You know, I think it’s like a swap with a community pools or…
Greg Osuri: It.
Scott Hewitson: something. Any any insights on that? Or I mean, I know it’s super super early.
Greg Osuri: No, I haven’t, we haven’t gotten there yet. I mean, we’re still, you know. I’m actually just reading the book that World and get a chance. Those traveling.
Scott Hewitson: Yeah, no, right? It’s more of when I think when Robert was asking how much it’s going to cost that was going in my head because there was a token swap involved. So that’s the only reason I was bringing that up.
Greg Osuri: I would imagine they were talking swap for them to get started, right? So I I didn’t like the Babylon K that long will to the billing as well,…
Scott Hewitson: Yeah.
00:25:00
Greg Osuri: the federal building For so I think Batman will provide both checkpoint of service as well as the billing. So we pay Dad on and Babylon will handle the bitcoin. It’ll be great. If it does that, you know, I could see that happening, right? So we don’t have to deal with. Changing the Kepler interfaces or things of the nature right now. We’re questioning like, Okay, how does the gas we work, do people have to pay bitcoin or like, You know, can they pay using the native Akash currencies? I think we should be able to use the it and some sort of swap happens. You know, in the background.
Scott Hewitson: Gotcha.
Cheng Wang: Do you think in terms of reading through the osmo proposal? I think the implementation for posca’s hours is going to versus like, are the implementation of describe these different than, like the snapshot implementation that osmos leveraging. Perhaps, do you see like,…
Greg Osuri: Yeah. Yeah.
Cheng Wang: the mechanisms being or basically slightly different?
Greg Osuri: So you broke up the end. Can you be the question again Cheng?
Cheng Wang: I’m sorry to like the Osmo proposal as far as integrating with Matlon is you leveraging like a snapshot mechanism versus our teams.
Greg Osuri: Yeah.
Cheng Wang: Don’t it seems anticipating mechanism fermentation wise, women different
Greg Osuri: I heard the first part. Second party, really broke up. So, the battle of the checkpoint,…
Cheng Wang: Starting.
Greg Osuri: checkpoint of the service. Right? So you just sorry it’s time to say my bad. My Yeah, I’m not very sharp here. It’s 12 o’clock tonight. It’s it’s time centers service. A bitcoin times. Sometimes as a service, that’s what Babylon is.
Greg Osuri: Cool.
Scott Hewitson: All right. There’s anyone have any more questions or pertaining to the economics 2.0? I feel like you know this is Sega economics. A portion of that will be in the Working Group economics 2.0 But I feel like economics encompasses a lot more things. So is there any other Items or any other things, people want to talk about relating to economics. Floors open.
Scott Hewitson: Andrew, go ahead.
Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, hi guys. So I have probably the question to Cheng. I guess the master of the coins so in the recent light of Akash given given like 1 million to cover, so I assumed it was a from the foundation tokens and like I was just curious if there is like if we can know in some ways, like, who have the foundation plans to spend Dawkins,…
Cheng Wang: The beach.
Andrew Gnatyuk: Like is there some plan or something? Still like since like all the events right now is sponsoring from the community pool? So, like just curious about that.
Cheng Wang: Yeah, for sure. And again apologize for background noise. Can you guys hear me Okay? I’m touching a flight to eat them currently. But in terms of the details there that my apologies that we haven’t been very speedy with the details, we will be sending sending a clarifying tweet and additional details. Probably tomorrow if not by the end of this week in terms of how we intend to leverage that budget right now it’s not the entire what is going to be allocated for the single endeavor. And so as far as what is going to be made available, we’re pledging the million tokens to to this effort. But as far as what the incentives are going to be, it’s going to be, you know, lower than that. So it’s it’s not like the entirely. It’s gonna be spent a lot once and all for this one effort is going to be a far smaller fraction. But and additional details will come out in the next day or change.
Greg Osuri: Just to be clear. No one is giving a million dollars worth of akat to Kawa. It’s not hug.
Cheng Wang: Yeah.
Greg Osuri: It’s a pledge.
Greg Osuri: That we’re open to working up to a million dollars. To incentivize validators and other applications deployed on a caution network right through the power ecosystem. It’s not a million dollars going to kava, I want to be very, very clear about it. and in reality it’s gonna be much different,…
00:30:00
Cheng Wang: Exactly.
Greg Osuri: but significantly lower, we don’t anticipate I mean if a million dollar work of You know, workloads are going to come to our cars. Fantastic. but I think reality is going to be significantly lower than that, that’s just me opinion again but not
Andrew Gnatyuk: Got it, thanks.
Greg Osuri: and I mean in reality, we’re doing like 5,000 AKP per application getting Cheng, is going to Release the details.
Greg Osuri: But I think it’s like some the different years of think.
Cheng Wang: Yeah, yeah, tldr is. We’re gonna incentivize long term employment. So over the course of six months valuers, who deploy their infrastructure, continuously on aposh network, will be eligible to error up to 5,000 akt per validator. And so there are also an additional figures as well, but that’s the crops of it. In addition to across network subscribe maps in this case subsidizing the cost of employments. We’re not here in time.
Greg Osuri: yes, if think of it like AWS Queryx essentially, similar model, For externalizing developers to use akash and the common consistency.
Cheng Wang: And I’ll close with it. It’s worthwhile nearly do that. The Incentivization here is coming out of Overclock labs Treasury now from the community budget. So this kind of an incentive is going to benefit the network as a whole. As far as you know learning getting work, was on to crash that. That’s whatever that scale maybe larger small.
Scott Hewitson: Awesome. Does anyone else have any other items that they’d like to bring up? Bring up?
Greg Osuri: and,
Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, so one more question. I just had in my mind I’m probably correct me if I don’t understand this one. So will this split in like we’ll add in bitcoin security to Akash, you will it affect the community pool in some like in some way? I…
Greg Osuri: I don’t.
Andrew Gnatyuk: the fees it goes to the community pool.
Greg Osuri: Know, I don’t know. Yeah, right through the proposal right so we’re in fact going to be increasing the community pool. And introducing new pools or funding, right? So and the reason why we’re trying to use Bitcoin is so that we don’t have, we can increase more funding and more allocation to the community. The public goods pool and the Providence centers,
Greg Osuri: I mean, again this percentage of How much goes what pool is governed by the community too. So it’s like It’s not something that no. All right, we write a bunch of code and like get push deployed, right? So it’s like, Yeah, all that is like. Determ to be determined how much percentage goes to community for. But but the good thing is by pushing security to bitcoin means we have more tokens that we can, you know, further distribute to other pools, right? Be community pool with public good providence, in the pool, with whatever you decide. So I So to answer your question, I think you have a chance of increasingly community pool rather than decreasing it because you pay less to validators and dedicate yourself.
Andrew Gnatyuk: Got it. Awesome. Thank you.
Greg Osuri: No way.
Scott Hewitson: And so just to confirm Greg. So we have, you know, all the inflation area rewards coming out a portion of that. Right now is going to validators, aka security budget that portion is going to the community pool.
Greg Osuri: Right.
Scott Hewitson: What this new thing is going to do is essentially allow less to go to validators. Let what make a less to security budget more to go to community pools, other pools. So we’re just siphoning away some of the inflationary words to to use it in other ways to progress the network.
Greg Osuri: Hmm.
Greg Osuri: Correct. They’re using the inflation rewards to incentivize more than just security because So far, it’s a security community participation, right? And community participation is just stupid or sorry it’s 10% now but it was 2%. Historically.
00:35:00
Greg Osuri: I mean. 10% is very, very low, right? Like But rather like you know where it should be much higher. I think like in like Osmosis gates, it’s over. 70% of the token.
Greg Osuri: emissions, are used to incentivize Behavior. Be it like LP Wars me that far be it community for water. Right. In a cautious case it’s only 10% is used to incentivize behavior. So we want to change that.
Greg Osuri: Quick question of change. You have Have you thought about split of funds from? Idp.
Greg Osuri: Incentive distribution Collidp right now. I’m mentally. We’re working. 25% on each four assume that will be covered in more detail. I am not going to make any recommendations as to how much percentage. I think we’re gonna make that as a variable. Because how much percentage should be determined by the community. You know. We’re going to employ very techniques to gauge the community momentum or sentiment as how. how what percentages are acceptable but I don’t think it’s we’re in a position to sort of like, Make a statement or make a recommendation at the stage without even understanding what? What’s comfortable right now? We don’t really modeling as to how we’re looking at these things. So you know, like for example,
Greg Osuri: Say we want incentivize a 100 or h100s, right? We want to know like How many atoms hunters, can we incentivize? And how much we want inside that comes down to like okay, how many? AI companies are out there that could use your 100s and how much market share you want to go after the initial phases, right through the centers. And so that way we can be like okay we want to put white X percentage of School of tokens to, to incentivize like. A 100 users. Or a 100 providers, right? So and we can maybe extrapolate from there on.
Greg Osuri: Or like estimate from there on as to how much of how much of traffic we’re getting. That’s incentivize and how much traffic we’re going on incentives. So quite a lot of modeling that that needs to go, that needs to happen before we come back and percentages.
Scott Hewitson: All right. Well, I think you know, if no one has anything else, I think we can adjourn. This, does anyone any less any last moment, any last things? And like, last thing anyone wants to say bring up or discuss any concerns.
Scott Hewitson: Oh, okay, so action items moving forward. I’m going to make the working group and github. I’ll do notes for this meeting and then we’ll schedule the first working group meeting for Economics 2.0, and okay, just for group, set up. I think it needs to be opened up to all users. Okay, you want to? Do want to have it open, or is it or those closed groups or they just invite only, I guess.
Greg Osuri: I mean yeah, invite only for experts.
Scott Hewitson: Okay, perfect.
Greg Osuri: I mean not not experts, like really comes down to like people that can contribute we don’t want a bunch of
Greg Osuri: People that cannot contribute and…
Scott Hewitson: Gotcha.
Greg Osuri: still be asking questions, or like, interrupting, right? Like, so if you are part of that,…
Scott Hewitson: Sure.
Greg Osuri: you need to be able to contribute somehow, right? So, it could be right documentation. It doesn’t have to be like Doing everything. So if you feel like you can contribute to Getting the foot thing done. Please please, you’re welcome. We’re looking for mathematicians willing to for people that can Put a Decay Curve The first time. First sort of like thing.
Scott Hewitson: and,
Greg Osuri: You need is a decay curve. Like, A distribution function essentially for the tokens. So we want to model a decay function that all distribute within 10 years. So I want to understand the having time and one understand. You know, the we know the initial set of tokens, right? We have we have You have the amount of tokens we need to distribute. And so based on that, we need to Figure out having time. And we need to figure out like
00:40:00
Greg Osuri: The. You know, like the distribution essentially.
Greg Osuri: so, Yeah.
Scott Hewitson: Perfect. All right, well with that, thanks everyone for joining and I will get that working group, scheduled and out to everybody. Thanks for joining. Yep.
Greg Osuri: Sounds good. Thanks so much Scott.
Scott Hewitson: Bye.
Scott Hewitson: Let’s turn off the recording.
Meeting ended after 00:41:12 👋