Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #3

Agenda

  • Updates from Cheng regarding Stable Payments draft Proposal
  • Open up to community for ideas or concerns

Meeting Details

Participants

  • Adam Bozanich
  • Andrew Gnatyuk
  • Boz Menzalji
  • Cheng Wang
  • Damir Simpovic
  • Denis Lelic
  • George Pro
  • Greg Osuri
  • Joao Luna
  • Rodrigo Rochin
  • Scott Carruthers
  • Scott Hewitson
  • Tyler Wright
  • Zach Horn

Notes

Cheng opened up discussion about the implementation of Stable Payments as part of the AKT 2.0 initiative. Stable Payments, in this context, refer to the ability to pay using USDC as an alternative to AKT, which currently serves as the primary payment method on the network. The implementation aims to improve usability and make the network more accessible.

The first iteration of Stable Payments focuses on multi-currency support, specifically for USDC, which is more widely accessible than AKT. This implementation will be carried out alongside a take rate mechanism, which charges a percentage fee on transactions made with non-native currencies like USDC.

Stable payments are considered an essential part of AKT 2.0 as they help create a more user-friendly experience and aid in budgeting. The take rate mechanism aims to fund various initiatives, such as incentive distribution pools, which can be used to support different aspects of the network, including security, developer funds, and more.

After the primer on Stable Payments, there were some questions and discussions from the group.

Noteable Questions (Paraphrased)

  • Question (Andrew): Regarding unlocks, will some of that be used to replenish the community pool?

    • Answer (Cheng): No, the unlocked tokens would not be pushed into the community pool, as the community pool has a specific funding source built on chain. The unlock tranche would not be added to the community pool, and this has been the case with all previous unlocks as well. The tokens will be used as the core team sees fit for purposes like vendors, bounties, etc.

  • Quesiton (Damir): can you speak to the the subsidies for providers in draft, I’m seeking more details and specifics on how they will work and when they will be available.

    • Answer (Greg): A potential plan is to incentivize providers similarly to how liquidity pools work in DeFi. The pools will be introduced by on-chain governance, and each pool will have a token budget with a distribution cycle. Pools are designed to attract specific configurations to match demands for resources like nodes or GPUs. Providers that meet the requirements will be able to participate in the liquidity pools and provide the needed configurations. This way, they can address the mismatch problem and allow users to find the resources they need on the Akash network. The experience will be similar to providing liquidity on platforms like Osmosis, where providers offer compute resources and earn tokens.

  • Question (Andrew): The Community Pool doesn’t have a ton of AKT in it, in the worst case scenario that it is drained from proposals what would happen?

    • Answer (Greg): I don’t see it as a likely scenario because of governance acting as good stewards. This also is important in that we need to progress the rest of AKT 2.0 to unlock the other portions of the Incentive Distribution Pool so we don’t have to soley rely on the community pool.

Action Items

Anyone who wants to contribute to Stable Payments or other aspects of AKT 2.0 please visit sig-economics in the Discord Server

Transcript

This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.

Scott Hewitson: All right. GM Everyone and Welcome to the third installment of SIG Economics. Call about GM, and the last one we talked, you know, we kind of talked about the latest developments actually, last last session was a lot of Q&A. I know a lot of work has kind of been going on behind the scenes, a little bit. Cheng. Put in. The stable payments PRD. So I know we’re going to talk about that a little bit today. So with that, we can drag, you want to kick it off or Cheng. Do you want to kick it off?

Cheng Wang: I’m happier. Greg go ahead.

Greg Osuri: Cover Cheng.

Cheng Wang: Yeah, so good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining. Like he said, great intro and in terms of jump, just let’s just jump straight into it. The Sega economics. First iteration of I guess breaking down Ekt 2.0, which is the the first big gigantic task that we had before us within this sig and in an effort to just get movement on that. And make some tangible progress. Fairly quickly is just to kind of chunking down into smaller pieces. I think we cover this in the last steering committee. Call a little bit as well, but I’ll just repeat that here and the first iteration of that. Thank you for Adam Bozanich for, for contributing tremendously to this. He’s kind of one of the heroes behind the scenes here and just the, the front man for, for all this stuff. So putting that prd publicly discussions, obviously that predated that the wasn’t too much back and forth even though there was I think some they’re quite a bit of questions.

Cheng Wang: Within the steering committee. But with that now, being on the public and taking consideration the feedback that there wasn’t that much honestly to go on. And so we’re going to push forward hopefully now with the build out of the MVP for the stable payments as well as implementation of the state, take a great rather. So in terms of stable payments, I do want to it’s kind of pedantic but make sure that this is falls under multi-currency support and just so happens that one of the biggest most important currencies to support our obviously stable coin payments, right? And usdc being kind of the gold standard currently as it stands despite it little period of shakiness a couple weeks ago but has since returned to its perch at this point in time. So USCC will be implemented and of course it’s available be osmosis right now on Cosmos probably the best place to get it.

Cheng Wang: Um, and as well as the initial take race for anything being paid in Uscc, right under that multi-currency support mechanism and will be implementing. And all these parameters, rather will be adjust can be adjusted via governance and it’ll be just kind of built out that way in terms of the PRD. That’s just kind of lehman’s terms. What I’m capable of putting up there in terms of next steps. It’ll be up to Adam. Bozanichip Believe Adam. I don’t know if you want to chime in turn into more of a technical specification documentation document so that work and Working proceed.

Adam Bozanich: Yeah, I’m turning into a Technical Doc and I’ll be working on the implementation as well.

Cheng Wang: And that’s it for me. If anyone has any questions, read through the PRD? Implement Station wise reasoning, etc. Please feel free to jump in

Greg Osuri: do you want to quickly summarize what we’re actually doing like in terms of like High level flow. How are we supporting? What are we not supporting? Instead of payments. I know there was like, discussion around.

Greg Osuri: Multi-currence. I mean, Multi-currency different currencies for payment and settlement but but we’re actually doing we’re not doing that right?

Cheng Wang: Great point.

Greg Osuri: Can you go

Cheng Wang: Yeah, great point. So Yes sir. Yes sir. The the ability, of course, right now, to natively paying Akt, has currently how everything is constructed right now, will not change that? Will always exist the piece that’s being added is usdc. Specifically, the channel will be uscc v, osmosis right? So the via the kind of the actual bridges is the preferred version of usdc. I guess you can say that we’re going to be implementing so tenant can come in right. Developer comes in and says, I want to pay in usdc the deposit and everything like that will happen in USCC, the gas fees as currently constructive, will still have to be paid in Akt. So the USCC will be sent natively. I don’t know if any of you guys are awesome osmos’s users but you can send USCC from an osmo wallet to another osmo wall.

00:05:00

Cheng Wang: Easily. So that would be the experience and Adam correct me if I’m wrong here but that would largely be the experience that you would see for a caution network as well. When when setting up a deployment on the other side for a provider taking those funds out of escrow, once you know, certain amount, has accumulated, whatever that amount is they’ll be able to take that in usdc as well, right? And so, for provider, what they can do is essentially just whether or not they want to bid on Akt and uscc workloads or one or the other. We know that one of the the Challenges that providers have run into has been kind of volatile. Obviously token prices, right? With reversity of the accumulate a whole bunch over time that price can fluctuate. Same similar with tenants if they have a long running workload. So the

Cheng Wang: Stable payments here specifically will help assuage a lot of those concerns albeit. Gas fees will still have to be paid an Akt. And that’s definitely a prerequisite Here. I think that there is something that can be changed. That Sunny has Moses did the highlight to us, so, in that gas fees can be paid via some sort of swap mechanism, right? I don’t I haven’t read through that fully yet, but that’s probably something. A little down, the road, The MVP or minimal product. Here is is literally to enable specifically Usdc Osmovie kind of Actular. So that’s one channel. So that’s the version of usdc. We’re going to stick to for now.

Cheng Wang: And we’ll create kind of a table, right? Of a different currencies and their respective, tape rates in the whole multi-currency support in the future. That if anything want. If anyone wants to add anything bad request, can be submitted via governance proposal. And in terms of settlement, there will be, it’s just version A to a. So if you submit the, if you the lease is struck an Akt, it’ll be paid and subtle name KT. If you’re struck in USCC, paid and settle on usdc. You can’t go from Akt to usdc or USC, C, d Akt. That’s the current design for now, to to ensure that the flow is as streamlined, just simple as possible. And in terms of the take rate, where that will come out is upon settlement. So instead of implementing something that’s a bit more complicated and complex, in the beginning of having a count block by block. So, in other words, if I’m attendant I put in my Akt or uscc into escrow, if I, you know, kill the deployment early, whatever the case may be,

Cheng Wang: The the take rate will have to wait until and just count basically on how, how many blocks, right? My deployment has been live for and do the math there, instead of doing it that way, which is a bit more complex where the take rate will will for, in this first iteration of at least come out of the withdrawal. So when the provider withdrawals, whatever some that is earned right for hosting a particular workload workloads, the the take rate will be taking out from from that at that moment in time. And the idea here is, of course, there has to be some education that has to be proliferated throughout for providers, as well as tenants. And we can talk about that in more detail, probably put something together for education, material on documentation, but ultimately, the providers should be weary. I mean now weird but understand that the take rate is going to come out of the withdrawal part of the process and they should price their lease accordingly in the market to kind of account for that.

Cheng Wang: So effectively the end result is, you know, passing along some of those costs sensibly to the to the tenant and therefore, you know, the kind of the spirit of the take rate coming from both tenant and provider is adhered to there.

Greg Osuri: Yeah, sounds good. Thank you.

Cheng Wang: You got it?

Scott Hewitson: Yeah, just just real quick Cheng because we have this recorded just for for everyone kind of backing things out, You know, Akt Akt 2.0 is a huge undertaking. This is just a small component of it. In my mind, you know, Akt 2.0 is, you know, tapping into the inflationary rewards and, you know, putting those into two into different buckets in a way that we can create sustainable growth for the network and development of the network. Can you kind of, can you go into why stable payments is important and that and the in the grand scheme and like why we’re focusing on this this aspect right now as a first step and how that relates to the bigger picture just so we can get kind of summary level. Consult recorded.

Cheng Wang: Certainly. Yeah, I know. It’s a great. Thank you for the prompt here. It’s a great question and great comments there. The reason why this is kind of the first level in that number one, right usability.

00:10:00

Cheng Wang: It makes the experience a little better for stable payments. Just have understanding what you’re paying and what’s coming out of it, and planning, budgeting, etc. All that stuff is a bit more. It’s a bit better, right? And in addition to that, the ingress right having getting access to Akt is not nearly as widely accessible as usdc. So that that’s another salt that’s another kind of boon or feather and cap there the how it ultimately adds to in the first notch, towards Akt making AKG 2.0, realize is in the take-rate specifically. So, and the implementation of the take right here, will ultimately in the first irritation. Now go to the community pool, but later on in the subsequent priority, that will probably push through some time this week. If not really next is the creation of the different. IDP accounts that Greg have outlined in his initial Akt, 2.0 proposal, right. That’s the high levels that Greg had and when we had a copious amount of discussion and get help around

Cheng Wang: And so the individual line, you know incentive distribution pool has you know call itself account within that one of them which is a community pool is currently just now one of which can be security one of which is you know, potentially rent developer fund, right? All of those respective pools will be funded from different mechanisms, right? And one of the primary mechanisms is going to be the take rate and so obviously we want to ensure that those people who are paying and settling leases in Akt have the lowest take rate, right? But again, that can be changed and governance depending on what the community wants there. And so all other support currencies, that are non-native Akt will definitely have higher take rich. So, for example, the all intake for USCC, it’s currently proposes 20% and I’ll just go through one. Very realistic example of how this can help. This is again to be sure, not part of the MVP build but, you know, something we’re looking

Cheng Wang: Fairly hopefully quickly down the line as far as what can be introduced in that the take rate USCC let’s say it’s a hundred bucks. It’s settled right? 100 usdc 20% that have taken so it’s 20 usdc that’s taken and put it into you know one of the IDP pools. A portion that pool for example, can hypothetically be allocated towards incentives and you’re saying well like what is incentives mean is pretty generic. In this case it could go in and acquire Akt and put in that pool and via not z mechanism, right? That it’s in module that currently exists for caution and cosmos SDK itself enable. Right? What we call

Cheng Wang: Again, I’m using this term here, but to give me some rope is going to be a gasless transactions, right? The gas is experience in that a person if they’re paying in usdc, right? Or any other currency network, or even an AKG, for example, right? The that the, this particular IDP account can pay the gas transaction fees right for deployments only, for example, and that can create a very seamless experience for those who are coming in from anywhere else. You know, ethereum etc pain than any other currency. Once it’s supported to pay in that native currency and have this take rate, whatever they’re paying into this pool partially fund, or at least fun, and whole the cost of the gas or the transaction itself such that the user and user. The experience is very seamless and that if I have you as DC, I don’t need it. Then also go acquire Akt. Because that part of it is taking care of me behind the scenes. So it essentially creates a way to

Cheng Wang: Fund a self perpetuating self-fulfilling right replenishing rather faucet of sorts and because it’s logged in getting behind and all the z feature that can only be spent for deployments. For example, it’s less likely to be spammed. And, of course, you can make it super small, such that there would be kind of, no purpose in, in spamming in number one. Number two, of course, there can be additional protections that can be built in. So, that’s just one example of the take rate, ultimately benefiting the entire community. And that’s just this one example ever, right. Other ones can be, you know, buying and burning Akt. For example, right? That’s another component of the other is, you know, as as covered in the Entity Two dollar proposal that Greg posted and the other one can be distributing to Akt stakers and just, you know, funding additional efforts on chain.

Scott Hewitson: Actually, thanks. Thank you for that explanation. So really, this is, this is a starting point to unlock everything else down down, road for Akt, 2.0, Awesome.

Cheng Wang: Exactly.

Scott Hewitson: What that does it does anyone else have any questions for for Greg or Cheng or anything else that they’d like to bring up economics related?

00:15:00

Scott Hewitson: You know, radio silence. All right. Yeah. I mean, I know that was this is a little bit short. Do we Cheng or Greg? Do you have anything else you want to add or anyone have anything? Yeah Andrew, what’s up?

Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, hi guys. So it’s not like it, Economics 2.0 related because, yeah, it’s probably almost everything is clear to me right now. So my question is about the last the last unlock and the community pool basically, so my question is that

Andrew Gnatyuk: In a second. So there was in a lock recently. Yeah, and last and locking here like the last lock in Genesis right. And the portion of the marketing tokens were unlocked and that’s not talking about also. So my question is, will those like documents or portion of the stockings be distributed to to a community pool, or will the overclock team be solid distributions into some like in their own way as you please? And or they will be distributed to a new like incentivize distribution pools that our plan is to create.

Cheng Wang: Good question, Andrew. So number one, just like the subsequent unlocks. These will just the kind of wine rewind the clock a little bit, right? When everything was set initially, in Genesis, it was our best guess as in Genesis team to say, what are

Cheng Wang: Budgets that we think tokens could be allocated for in terms of spending, right? And everything that’s done here in terms of like marketing, spend and vendors that we pay for. So, for example, a prism that we work with strategies, right? They’re paid in Akt and so that is part of the marketing budget and that the company has been paying for since being of time, right? With various of these vendors. And so that comes directly out of these types of budgets, they will not be pushed into the community pool. The community pool has a very specific funding source which is going to be you know, it’s built on chamber so it’s not something that this particular unlock tranche would be going into. I don’t know why. That’s the flow never worked that way. Even with subsequent unlocks, if you look into the schedule publicly available, right, all previous unlocks in these particular pools, never went into the community pool, right? It always came from a single source.

Cheng Wang: Is kind of how it was built since Genesis on chain. And as far as it’s uses go, it’s just exactly like a described. So incentivize testnets, historically that we’ve done right test. Since now, bounties vanguards, all these things at the community pool hasn’t historically paid for comes out of these particular buckets, right? And and we’ll, you know, continue to in addition to what the community pool can help supply, right? So those are the kind of the uses there and should be super clear. It’s not going to go into the community pool. It’s going to be used. As you know, the team see Fits as the core team sees fit. As you know, and if anyone has any questions on that, happy to to help answer it. But in terms of the unlock that is the last unlock that will ever have and in Genesis, which is a good milestone for us. Finally, all that pressure is off the table.

Cheng Wang: Yeah, fire women.

Andrew Gnatyuk: One. Yeah one more question just to be clear and just like jump in a head. So let’s say we will have for example some like a cash will have some instant device. That’s not like soon enough for the GPU testing or some sort of count of orchain testing of some sort of a new Greg, right? We are putting on a chain so will this be funded from Community pool? Or will this be funded by the Overclocking?

Greg Osuri: I’m sorry. Repeat the question. Is it a test net?

Andrew Gnatyuk: If instant Device does not, let’s say we have, we will have a new instant device testnet. for like,

Greg Osuri: and incent, we’re not gonna have any incentives, but in case we do in the future, That depends on who’s right investment.

Andrew Gnatyuk: yeah.

Greg Osuri: It over a cautious, a community. It’s no longer. Control like Overclock Labs or Cloud Labs, don’t have any majority control. So anybody can run inside, I would imagine

Greg Osuri: If we do, depending on the test and depending on you know who’s running it, I would imagine there would be, you know, Funding it or they would make a proposal. We would also have a public goods funding. That’s proposed as part of a car Akt to that O. They’ll have a significantly larger. You know. Budget are tokens. And then what community pool is, I would imagine every public sort of like

00:20:00

Greg Osuri: You know, contribution that everybody benefits from Akash should come from a shared pool of everybody, right? So a really depends on the on the question. I, I think we’re past and we say let’s test them at this point. But if you actually like, You know. Look at the evolution of the incentivized behavior. It really comes down to Can we support?

Greg Osuri: You know, like a big thing would be for us to attract provided liquidity, right computer liquidity. So tomorrow we’ll have And we discuss this before. There’s a big problem right now with liquidity mismatch in terms of what the demand. Is asking and what the providers of supply. So we need a way to solve the problem and the way we do that is through incentivizing providers to match the supply, the demand right? So for that would be that would be considered something like in cinema Star. There’s not not really it’s not even a testament, it’s really production instead of Asian behavior, right? So Obviously, that’s going to be funded on chain. That’s a proposal.

Greg Osuri: And it really depends on the community, actually, you know, but we’re not going to have. As far as like, I understand, you’re not going to have Internet anymore.

Andrew Gnatyuk: Guys, thank you.

Scott Hewitson: Alrighty, I think, does anyone else have any other questions, or concerns, or anything else that they’d like to bring up? Can be anything Economics related doesn’t have to be Akt 2.0 related.

Scott Hewitson: Oh okay, so I think we can kind of kind of wrap up. I’d like to just Kind of we talked about stable payments PRD. And oh yeah shampoo. What’s going on?

Damir Simpovic: Pile. I’m just gonna I asked this before, but I’m gonna ask again, because now, now might it might be a better time for this since Akt 2.0 is coming. Kind of closer. And, as many of, you know, I run one of the providers on the Akash network and I want to kind of bring it to another level. I want to. You know, get the really decent Internet link with a lot of IP addresses and I don’t know. And I’ve seen in the

Damir Simpovic: In the draft that. there will be some subsidies for providers. So, I’m, I’d like to know a bit more about that and how it’s gonna and what it need, you know, how to go about it. Basically, and When will it be available? Yeah. If you can please. Be more specific about it and give us more details.

Greg Osuri: Right. So our thinking right now is to you know, essentially incentivized providers Similar to how. You know, liquidity pools work. In defabs essentially. The pools will be. You know, introduced by ancient governance to the to the change, each poll will have a you’re talking budget. With the distribution cycle.

Greg Osuri: That pool is designed to attract a certain type of configuration. So, for example, we see a lot of like demand for let’s say, you know, Nodes running on Akash, right? Nodes will have you know let’s say a requirement for 250 gigabytes or disk Um yeah like 32 gigabytes of memory an IP addresses and persistent storage as a requirement. Providers that match, that requirements will be able to participate in those liquidity pools and provide that specific type of configuration. So now we can solve the mismatch problem. Now we have people like you know, that want to run nodes on a cash, come to Akash network actually, get the compute that they want. similar to GPUs where you have a 100 future and high demand

00:25:00

Greg Osuri: And obviously we will have a pool for a 100s with minimums that have configuration then you satisfy in order to get those words. So the larger, the pool, that means a lower the cost for that particular configuration. Right? So in cases where we have a 100 where is extremely hard, you get supply via anticipate, the pool will be smaller incentive to be larger in the early years, at least that’s a tractor enough for providers that having one offer GP owners have a100 to come and, you know, listen Akash. So, this way, we’ll be able to match, the type of demand that we will be seeing So the experiences again, the experience assume similar at least what we’re thinking is very similar to how osmosis will be where you just basically provide liquidity to a pool which is essentially providing me GPUs or CPUs or whatever computer resources. And Earl token, Sally.

Damir Simpovic: Nothing. All right, thank you. But

Greg Osuri: The Bible, will it be ready? If anyone it’s up to the community now to To really find people to implement this, right? So, you know, this is a call for essentially participation. you know, we are I’m actually, you know, In the process of designing, the The incentive distribution at least from like the math standpoint. And after that, we’ll need to

Greg Osuri: You know, right? Right Aprd. And after that, we need to get it out. So whoever wants to help me design this, You know, can join the Working Group for Economics and start working on this project. I don’t have time lines and time line depending on how many people are there to work on it. But we do have a plan. And the plans people. if you’re interested in the work with the, the Greg’s project,

Damir Simpovic: To have school. I’m definitely interested. Definitely I’m not. Another developer. So I’m not sure if I can help you from the in that regard, but I’m an engineer. So, And I as I said before, I run a provider so I have a pretty good idea.

Damir Simpovic: Of what’s required and definitely, definitely, I’d love to help.

Greg Osuri: Sounds good.

Greg Osuri: Andrew.

Andrew Gnatyuk: Hygenic. Okay, so I have one more concern as if I may. So let’s assume the worst case scenario, right? So let’s assume we are going to drain the community pool in a few months. Right. Well. It’s like it’s quite possible with the price of a kitty right now and the amount of compute community pool like Do we have some backup plan or What’s then or We just subs in like doing the governance proposals and waiting until it’s fill up by the commissions and fees before. Like we implement the taking and make your feet right now because it’s not implemented yet.

Greg Osuri: Wow. Have you seen the HD proposal proposal? Andrew.

Andrew Gnatyuk: What, what?

Greg Osuri: Have you seen the AKA Key tool proposal?

Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Yeah. I saw

Greg Osuri: so, liver proposal, we have Are different. There is a pool called incentive distribution pool.

Andrew Gnatyuk: I’m aware of that I’m like but it’s not implemented yet, I’m talking about like the new officials say three months is from now on, let’s say we will have like the gallons proposals to find some projects with and business romances. We are draining our pool like totally completely like we will have like nothing there.

Greg Osuri: All the sound like this scenario. I think we’re also, you know, the community is coming together in protecting the pool pretty well. Um, and with reset, you know, attempts to drain the pool have been all subdued. And I think that’s a good thing. I mean unlike this and I in a likely scenario of the community feels like they should spend the AKP community pool on something. It’s it’s communities prerogative. That’s that’s the way governance works but I have much bigger faith in the car community to be very responsible and there should be very, very responsible, right? So I don’t think. The scenario you’re proposing is realistic and if it does you know, we just need to move fast with implementing. The executive distribution. Our pools, right? So

Greg Osuri: if it’s fast, that means if you’re drain the pool for development, I would imagine your your developings instead of distribution for because as far as understand, the roadmap right now really is Aktural implementation of the priority along the GPUs, right? So,

00:30:00

Greg Osuri: Yeah. So Unlikely scenario. But if that were contribution, we have a backup plan which is implement go full hands down on a guitar Cheng.

Cheng Wang: Yeah, I would say also the The pools usage,…

Greg Osuri: But we

Cheng Wang: right? It has been accumulating for some time and it’s only been kind of accelerating and it’s usage. As of I would say late, you know, combination of a various different factors, right where I just wanted to talk about this, like, holistically, It is a point, I know of contention in the community and I want to make sure that the community is thinking about it from Overclock labs position as well. So we can have kind of a total understanding, right? So, if we back up a bit,

Greg Osuri: That’s good.

Cheng Wang: Where historically every effort that has been put forth development. All these tools, everything we see right now has been funded by Overclock Labs, right? And we never touched community pool, when, when that was happening, there wasn’t, Oh, hey, when is Overclock Labs ever going to use the community pool. Right? But now that it’s kind of we’re opening everything up and we put all the IP via console and everything like that I was developed internally with. We have teams that have mouths of feet and we have very real budgets and concerns that we have to to me, right? And be the business development community building, all that stuff is spearheaded by Overclock labs and their salaries to pay. And of course, the Genesis tokens and stuff like that helps in that great deal, right? So in that regard like the marketing budget, vendor budgets all that stuff helps go and pay for all these things that we’re bringing helping to bring to the community along with all the participants I want to make that very, very clear. There are two scientists. So this particular story in terms of the

Cheng Wang: Any pool itself has we haven’t been obese, the usage of it has accelerated over time, but again, like Greg said, it will be replenished. Via these others means, but they have to be pushed forward, right? And in order for the community pool to be replenished, the very things that that the core team is working on to help, bring them to bear will help replenish the community pool. Right? Will there can there be some tail event? Where the pool will dip below a certain amount that’s like not as comfortable like or familiar to be seen? Yeah, it can happen but it’s a, it’s a finite pool of resources. Just like the Genesis allocation tokens that, the core team has is a very finite pool of resources, right? And so we have to be as a community and as a core team very judicious in terms of how we spend them and how we use them. And that’s why the yeah. So I just want to make sure that that’s very clear and no,

Greg Osuri: And also it’s very important. Like, I don’t know if you saw You know, console development, most of the comments. Most of the pull requests come from outside Overclock Labs. And those are boundings inside of us boundaries, right? So that’s being funded right now. By overclock labs, all apps is doing all the Funding. That’s described incentive distribution pool except for security and except for You know, you know, except for province me to a certain degree. We are also giving province centers from

Greg Osuri: That we’ve been allocated initially, right? So, a lot of bootstrapping overclock labs did and now we’re, you know, with AK teacher at all that bootstrapping will transition has to transition to a community-based mechanism in order for a crash to have, you know, to remain true to this decentralized roots, right? So, Um, we’re looking forward to like implementing to the as quick as possible and the foundation for that is is stable payments which is the most critical and most difficult part of the entire proposal. The rest of the stuff is actually much easier. um, because you know, IDP is essentially just a carving out of the with the tokens are going, right? So,

Greg Osuri: so yeah, so for it to fully be implemented, it’s not something that’s not it’s not You know, making progress. I mean Stable. Famous, most difficult thing we tackle first and then the rest will be tackle very quickly. Assuming and I don’t see a scenario community pool really completely replenish. And any of the recent proposal by Adam Bosni, who may essentially propose that it’s a signaling proposal, it’s not a spank propose. Right? So signaling proposals is to signal whether even a spend proposal makes sense and we’re not going to the proposal, you know, had a, you know, considerable amount of deployment for community activities. But that’s for the cross, you know, year or several years as a matter of fact, right? So it’s not

00:35:00

Greg Osuri: The next three months that the entire pool will be trained for we spent on community activities, it’s going to be like best air is going to be trickle. It’s going to go over time. so, The scenario your your proposing. Andrew is not realistic.

Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, I know totally I was just like assuming the worst case scenario, you know because there was some people in containers in our like groups and people diem in me with concerts and I want to know that I wanted to see like a cool picture yet to know how to answer them on that. That’s why that’s why I was asking.

Greg Osuri: And as you know, I’m an overclock labs doesn’t really participate in governments just on our principle. We don’t upload. We don’t downward. maybe, you know, I don’t I don’t know any better because I gives about it. I mean I my personal take in companies and foundations like tokens are all. Yeah, the voting happens to the validators. So

Greg Osuri: you know, we will if we see and I don’t normally comment on public, you know, proposals, especially community spend proposals. Online as a principal Except for proposals that, that really, really doesn’t make sense. The proposal recently from, to spend on carbon credit, we did make any sense. So I had to call it out since other nature, and we will take a very aggressive active like public. What do you call position? When we see a you know, when we see A.

Greg Osuri: Dangerous proposal that’s going to drain out the fun, right? So, but yeah, so you know, the unit, the recent cloudmaster proposal that was draining out of training out the pool, I don’t think any of us probably any o’clock employees or, or are, you know, actually affiliates took a Publicization on whether it should be fun. It’s a community that came together and say, Look this is too and I gave my Feedback. Clearly in a sick meetings and whatnot, which was not considered, but But the community came together can be like giving you a black check for like economics. I mean community will funny projects with specific.

Greg Osuri: You know, specific goals in specific ways to measure progress and and be a lot more granular in terms of the ask. But in general ask of like, hey million tokens. I mean Akt to fund me for four months is not going to fly, right? The community made then very, very clear. But there are other smaller projects that Devs came and said, like, we’re going to need. An 18800,000 Akt to achieve, you know, this particular feature for this particular, you know, discussion that people wanted that’s easily fundable because that’s like granular enough. So you can actually have accountability and it actually have like

Greg Osuri: More controlled spend on the community pool, right? Either way, all that developers spend is going to move to PGP The public was funding but probably good school pool. But but there’s community coming together and adding God rails against a, you know, against a territory community proposals, and in case, you know, we overclock labs and step in to watch their opinion. We will not be afraid to do, so that’s where we stand.

Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep, got it. Thanks you. Thank you for clarification, and Greg and check. Appreciate it.

Greg Osuri: Rodrigo had a question. I like the idea of creating LPS for incentivizing providers but Greg only mentioned rewarding those providers that leads and requirements sounded like only large proairs would get awarded but would be nice for some Type LP for every type of programming small. And on already a good question. Rodrigo when I said certain type of configurations, That will be decided by the community. What? Just like how you can. create like, A pool and osmosis, right? Anyone can create a pool when I was bosses, but to add incentives to the pool. The community has to approve, right? So, similarly, we’re thinking right? Like in order for

Greg Osuri: It’s not going to be a company, that’s deciding who gets the rewards. It’s going to be, you know on governance and the governance will take an account the kind of demand, right? It’s not only logical artist. You can have You know, a mining rig essentially with a 40s and it is demand for 84 days coming from from the users, they should be a pool for A4 is. And and that could essentially You know, of course you needed a minister of configuration to meet meet the pool requirements but you should begin reward about tomorrow, there’s like Rtx 40 90s which is a gaming p****.

00:40:00

Greg Osuri: There’s a lot of objects 49 days, right in the wild. There’s a lot of demand for that. They should be there will be pulled for it, so it’s not designed to just incentivize large hyperscalers. Sure for high mgp, is like a 100% h100. It’s only hyperscale us have access to them and if the demand for a 100’s and it’s 100 Super High, there’s going to be a good amount of portion of good amount of workings. Right? And a lot of the stuff has been already sort of like Um, broken down and studies osmosis right? So osmosis decides on the pull. The, the budget for these pools based on volume. So volume is essentially, how much You know, we can have similar schematics not exact exact statics, but you can have some way to measure.

Greg Osuri: You know lack of affordable volume or like are usage. You know, for this particular type of configuration and and then incentives will be just we have a good starting point to base off our model from which is osmosis And we’ll make necessary schematics changes and whatnot to retrofit to a cash, right? But that’s the line of thinking of course, all this will be written down and You know, put the thorough public debate and whatnot.

Greg Osuri: Correct. Legends.

Cheng Wang: Yeah, for sure and we’ll push those through like we say, you know, where in terms of everything’s radically open now where we’ll push those in Github discussions. I’m engaging discord and all that stuff. So you know, and have these monthly slash, you know, more frequent calls outside of CIGS when we have the working group spot up. So please keep those questions coming in and we’ll, we’ll make sure we, you know, answer as many as we can. And ultimately the end of the community has a huge hand in this, right? So, and in designing it

Scott Hewitson: Awesome.

Greg Osuri: That’s very good question, actually.

Scott Hewitson: All right, so you know, I know Greg Ang Cheng have said a lot. It’s up to the community. A lot of these things are up to the community. We have in discord. We have a working group for Akt economics to. So please anyone who is trying to get involved you know, please join in on that. You know, it seems like a a point that everyone cares about so let’s come together as a community and you know start working on some of the stuff. So that’s my call to action for everyone I suppose.

Cheng Wang: Yeah. And there’s a working group right as well for sable payments and this is again the first aeration of it and we’re not going to just shut the working group down. Once this is done it, it does have legs to it. So if anybody wants to jump in on this chord, please do so that working group has a grand total of one message posted over Clouds Core team.

Greg Osuri: just,

Cheng Wang: So if community wants to Uncle Sam style, we want you to participate. Come on now.

Scott Hewitson: That’s right. All right. Does anyone else have any last questions, comments, concerns before we wrap things up?

Scott Hewitson: All right, more radio silence. All right, well, thank you everyone for joining us today. With cig, economics and excited to see how all this all this develops. Appreciate you guys. I’m gonna stop presenting right now.

Greg Osuri: Thank you.

Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, thank you guys.

Cheng Wang: Thanks everyone. As well Sandra by everyone.

Andrew Gnatyuk: Bye. Have a nice day.

Meeting ended after 00:44:21 👋

Last modified on November 21, 2023
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